Many of you have expressed the wish that streamers could be see as innuOS 2.0 players working as a multi-room system. innuOS uses the playback engine from the Logitech Media Server which does provide multi-room capabilities. Streamers having an option for a Squeezelite player will be able to be seen already as innuOS players. Our next objective is to enable this feature for streamers using the UPnP / DLNA / OpenHome protocol.
Currently there is a LMS plugin that can be activated and provide basic support for this scenario. This is still being tested to check whether it's a stable option and will still need to be integrated properly into the Innuos Sense UI. But soon we will provide an article to show you how to enable/disable this option so you can try on your systems.
I can select my Naim NDS or the USB output of my ZENmini via the volume bar in the bottom right-hand corner of the screen since I installed 2.0.8. Thanks!
I have installed the UPNP-bridge plugin via IP-address-of-my-ZENmini:9000 as described below.
I have now used this option to play to my NDS or my ND5XS. It works like a charm >90% of the time. Exceptions:
- some tracks from Qobuz do not play to the end. The next track starts too soon.
- sometimes if I pause a track, I can only restart it from the beginning.
- sometimes if I quickly jump to the next track multiple times, the system halts and I must go back some tracks to restart it. I know this problem from the SmallGreenComputer upnp-bridge.
I am a potential Statement purchaser and Naim Streamer user and am concerned at not having access to the full functionality of the Statement. Is this issue only about use/convenience of the app or is there a sound quality impact? I assume I will be able to browse and select music stored on the Statement and select streaming services from the Naim app but will I be losing out on sound quality or only convenience?
Hi Martin, this is just about using the Innuos Sense App and play music on the Naim using the features available on the Sense app. You can perfectly enable the UPnP Server on the Statement and use the Naim app as it currently stands.
I used the UpNP plug-in with the older Innuos software and it worked okay, but there were always some issues. Now with InnuOS 2.0.7 it is very flakey. Hope to see it integrated and working correctly in the new OS very soon! PS otherwise loving the new app. Thanks Nuno!
I installed Logitech Mediaserver 8.2.0 (LMS) on a Windows pc and enabled the plugins for Qobuz and UPnP/DLNA bridge. (This is the same LMS version that is installed on my ZENmini Mk3 with InnuOS 2.0.6..) From the LMS server on the pc, I can play directly to my Naim NDS via its UTP input. The system has now been playing a playlist from Qobuz with added albums from Qobuz and albums from my local library for over 10 hours non-stop. I can control it via the web interface of LMS or with an app on my tablet. It runs flawlessly and responds very quickly.
First impression is that the sound quality is slightly lower than that with the ZENmini as server, but there are more links in the chain and Windows settings, power supplies and cables have not been optimized yet.
Then I opened the LMS settings on my ZENmini via IP-ADDRESS:9000 and turned the UPnP/DLNA plugin on. Restarted the LMS server to complete the plugin installation; restarted the ZENmini just to be sure. In LMS Settings/UPnP/DLNA bridge I see that the Naim NDS has been discovered and added. But the InnuOS 2.0 system does not show it as player. The problem is InnuOS, not the underlying LMS.
Are you sure? Have you clicked on the currently selected player name? That should provide with a list of available players.
Yes, I am sure. I only see the built-in SPDIF output and the USB-SPDIF converter connected to a USB port. Refreshing the list does not help.
Where exactly should I click on the player name?
I looked under Server>Settings>Player Settings.
After the settings changes via the Logitech Media Server mentioned above, the ZENmini plays to my Naim NDS via UTP (UPnP) by default, even though the NDS is not visible in the Server>Settings>Player Settings>Player output list.
I cannot play to the players that are listed there, viz. the built-in SPDIF-output and the Sonore USB-to-SPDIF converter.
I did not notice this at first. I selected the SPDIF input, but the NDS automatically switches to the UTP (UPnP) input when a signal is present on this input. It overruled my input selection and I forgot to check...
It's not supposed to be listed on the Player section at this stage. You can select the active player on player name that shows next to the volume control. This opens a list of available players.
Hi Nuno, Thanks for responding. I tried to do what you suggest. The problem is that I see only one player (the NDS); the other two (which I see in the player settings) do not show up in the list you indicate. Actually, what happens is that volume slider expands for the current player (the NDS), but no list of players pops up. Regards, Arjen
Please contact us on support so we can follow this up privately.
I have emailed support.
To put things in perspective:
- InnuOS should respond to our feature request. Give us a time line. After all, you advertise your servers as a high end solution for Naim (and other UPNP) users, and boast about the dedicated UTP port for streamers.
- But the 'old' way of using the InnuOS server via UPNP (with BubbleUPNP or the Naim app) still works.
- My problem with the 'old' way is that InnuOS 2 changed the sound via UTP. It has become too forward for my taste. My NUC with Windows and Asset UPNP now sounds better than my Zen Mini Mk3. With InnuOS 1.4.x it did not.
InnuOS claims that InnuOS 2 improves the sound quality, period. A repetition of what happened when they introduced version 1.4.3. It is almost like they do not understand that high-end hifi systems are a balancing act which can be disturbed by small changes somewhere in the chain.
InnuOS denies requests for a roll-back to an older OS version because that would undo bug fixes. Hard to accept... It should be possible to separate bug fixes and major OS changes, and to allow a user friendly roll back. PS Audio has done this for years. It is a right that buyers have, given their investment in high end audio gear.
I have been using a USB-to-SPDIF converter for a couple of weeks now, and I must say I enjoyed using the InnuOS 2 system and the Sense app. But sound quality is my priority. So, I have decided to put my plans for upgrading to a Zenith on the back burner, and to investigate alternative server solutions.
Just want to add to the voices of those ethernet-streaming users (Naim) who would love to utilize the new Sense app. I have read from the sidelines about the advances being made in the Sense app since no one with a UPnP-based ethernet streamer is able to utilize the new direction Innuos has taken. I've gone back to the Naim app since the initial InnuOS upgrades this summer with my Innuos Zen III basically acting as a very expensive hard drive. Would love to enjoy the benefits of the new OS and app. Otherwise the value-add many of us bought into with Innuos over the past 3-5 years has become irrelevant. Like everyone else I'd love to see this sooner rather than later. It does appear a handful of folks are able to utilize this LMS workaround in the meantime. Providing the promised article detailing how to use this workaround from July's would be a great stopgap since it's now October and no other mention has been made.
Since updating to version 2.06 I have been unable to configure my Zen mini mk2 to play to UPnP streamers and as a result my Naim Unitiqute 2 is unable to ‘see’ the Zen mini, with the result I can’t play my stored music. Zen mini is visible on my network. I have tried everything to get it to work. It worked fine on version 1.x. Innuos support team have been unable to come up with a solution and I’m tearing my hair out in frustration.
I have the opposite: I cannot turn off the upnp server on my ZenMini Mk3.
I've just downloaded v2.06 and the interface seems much better than my previous 1.4.7. I just wanted to be sure that I understand the full potential of this version in my system. I have an Zen MKII connected by ethernet to a Naim NDS streamer. A Naim Muso streamer (1st gen) is also connected to the network by ethernet. I use the Naim app to play music from the server or from Tidal. So currently I could only use the Sense app instead of the Naim app with the NDS provided the Zen's USB digital output was connected to one of the NDS digital inputs, and I would not be able to do this with the Muso. However, this proposed feature addition would allow both these devices to be effectively controlled by the Sense app. If this is correct, I'm in!
I'm eager to use my UPNP streamer with the Sense app. The app/operating system has tremendously improved the user friendliness, but I am now forced to insert a USB-to-SPDIF converter to use it with my Naim. I would very much like to go back to using UTP.
Is there any way to roll back to a previous version? At the moment my Zen mini is an expensive brick
Does this mean I can’t use my Naim Unitiqute 2 as a streamer with Zen Mini mkII (v2.0.5) as a server? Currently Sense can’t integrate a UPnP player
This is a critical feature for those of us who use our Innuos device's Ethernet output to service multiple zones. In my case, after upgrading my Zen Mini Mk3 to 2.0.5 OS, I was disappointed to find no endpoint devices could be detected. In my home, I run Roon Core to stream wirelessly to 3 independent zones (a headphone station attached to an Auralic strreamer, a Q Acoustics "Q Active 200" loudspeaker in my living room, and a dedicated listening room also attached to an Auralic device). Ideally, testing can include these excellent endpoint products. As much as I'd like to try out the Sense control app, the current situation is a non-starter for anyone in my situation.
Hi Nuno, will also the auralic femto streamer be part of your testings?
Today, I started the Sense app on my Android tablet, so that it was searching for servers before I started my ZENith. It found the (server and) player without needing a restart. (I'll try this again next time.)
The lms plugin guideline/ article, is there any news of a timeline for when we will see it ???
When we start working on it, it will show under the In Progress section on the roadmap. Sorry but we don't provide any dates to release features. This will depend on priorities and this can change - in fact this is the point of the Feedback Zone: You can all influence what's done next!
Hi Nuno when will the update for the Zen mk2 be out, can not see any mention of it
Hi Nuno - how does Naim Uniti Atom fit with your comment ?
The Naim Uniti is one of the units being tested so yes it would apply to it.
Fantastic - thanks 👍